Monday, November 29, 2010

Discuss Your Reading: The Poems of Robert Frost

Discussion Topic

Now you'll have a chance to discuss your interpretations of "Design" and "The Most of It" by focusing on the speakers in each poem. Post a message that responds to one or more of the following questions:

  • Who is the speaker in each poem?
  • Is the speaker's identity important? Why or why not?
  • How is the speaker revealed in each poem?
  • What are the qualities of the two speakers?
  • How are the two speakers either alike or different?

As a follow-up posting, ask a question of your own or post whether you agree or disagree, and why, with a classmate's interpretations.

Scoring

This discussion is worth a maximum of 15 points. You'll get 10 points for your first posting. Your instructor will give you another 5 points if you post a follow-up comment or question that furthers the discussion.


47 comments:

  1. Original:
    In both poems, the speaker's identity isn't necessarily important. However, the speaker seems to be omniscient of the events that occur within the poem, as if an outside spectator. In both poems, the speaker expresses feelings of doubt towards his subjects; in "Design," questioning the design of God and in "The Most of It," questioning the subject (the man).

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  2. Original:
    The identity of the speaker in both of Frost's poem is irrelevant because whether the reader knew whom it was that was narrating or not wouldn't make a difference in how he or she perceives the poem. The speaker in "Design" mostly uses simile to give the reader an idea of what's occurring in the poem while the speaker in "The Most of It" uses imagery and descriptive detail to get to his point.

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  3. Original: The two speakers are alike because they both question God in some way. The manner in which they do so, however, is different. The speaker in "Design" does not question the existence of God but rather questions how God creates. I believe that the speaker views God's ability to create as unfathomable yet only possible for Him to have. The speaker in "The Most of It" questions whether God is hearing his "cries" and possibly loses faith in him at the end of the poem. Although this question is not present in the prompt, I would like to know what the buck in "The Most of It" means.

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  4. To Jon:
    I agree with the fact that the identity of the speaker isn't important and with the idea that he plays the role of an observer, but I don't understand how the speaker questions the man in "The Most of It". Can you please elaborate on that?

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  5. To Christian:
    I agree that the speaker's identity is irrelevant. Since the speaker doesn't directly influence any events in either of the poems, we don't need to know much about him/her.

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  6. To Christian:
    In "The Most of It," the speaker is questioning the actions of the man. He describes the whole ordeal in a slightly condescending way, in a way not giving the man enough credit. He questions the man not in a direct way, but rather by implying that by looking and waiting for another, he's not making the most of his life.

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  7. Original:
    I believe that the identity of the speaker is unnecessary to the overall meaning gleaned from the poems. In "Design", the speaker is merely questioning the ways of God and in "The Most of It" the speaker is addressing the actions of an unknown subject (the man). While finding out the identity of the speaker may be helpful in other poems, it is irrelevant to the readers in these two particular poems simply because knowing the speaker would not yield us any additional information. The poems are straightforward in that aspect where the readers can concentrate on the purpose and meaning behind the poems.

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  8. To Sherifa:
    I agree with you on the point that the poems are both questioning faith and the ways of God. I also agree that both poems go about it in different ways. In "Design", the speaker is simply questioning how it is so that God has designed everything to serve a purpose. In "The Most of It", the subject has started to lose his faith in God because he feels so alone. However, the buck may simply be a sign from God that the man chose not to interpret in that way, thus losing faith in God. I am not absolutely positive in the significance behind the mentioning of the buck but I am sure that a host of rationales available.

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  9. To Jasbir: Thank you very much for answering my question. I also agree with your statement that the identity of the speaker is irrelevant in light of the purpose or meaning of the poem. All that is important to know about the speaker is how he or she feels, which may be skeptical of God (such as the speaker in "Design") or lonely (such as the speaker in "The Most of It).

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  10. Original:
    The speaker in “Design” is believed to be Robert Frost, however, the speaker in “The Most of It” describes the contrast between the attitudes of the main character and Robert Frost himself. In “Design” identification of the speaker is not as important as it is in “The Most of It.” In “Design,” the speaker revels his questioning attitudes of creation and the creator. He witnesses the natural aspects of a white flower, a white spider, and a white moth, and questions the mechanics of each creature. Although the main focus of the poem is these three species, the actual focus of the poem is of God and the speaker’s perspective of a supposed “mighty being.” However, in “The Most of It,” the speaker in alone in nature, looking to become on with the universe and uncover “universal knowledge” as well as trying to make the most of life. The speaker however, realizes that he has just wasted some of his “life” looking for a sign from God. Both speakers are alike in the fact that they each would like to more about “God” if in fact he does exist. Both poems are filled with doubt and are looking for answers that they are most likely not going to find.

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  11. To Sherifa:
    I agree that both speakers are questioning God in some form. Leading off to the fact that you believe that the speaker in “Design” questions how God creates, I believe he also questions freedom. If God has created such an intricate design in a thing so small, he must have also created intricate designs in larger things such as human beings, which poses the question, Are we truly free to make decisions or are all of the decisions that we have made, make, and will make, pre-designed? As for “The Most of It,” I second your questioning of the buck’s symbolic representation. It would be interesting, thou, to discover that the buck was the sign for God, the main character is desperately seeking.

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  12. Original:
    The identity of both speakers is not very accurate. I would say that the identity of each speaker isn't important and even if the identity was known it wouldn't make a difference in how readers interpret both poems. Both speakers on the other hand question God in one way or another. The speaker in "Design" questions the ways of how God designs/creates, and the speaker in "The Most of It" clearly talks about the actions of an unknown subject questioning the existence of "the men".

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  13. I do think the identity of the speakers in both poems are important because the speaker whoever it is may have a different point of view whether it was Frost or in the point of view of a different individual. In both poems the speaker questions God and the idea that every thing if not most things in life is apart of something bigger. I believe I can see that theme in "Design" most clearly as compared to " The Most of It".

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  14. In Response to Jon's response to Christian, I think that the speaker is relevant because he or she in either powm plays a large role becuase it gives you a point of view that you wouldn't see. For example "The Most Of It" relates a man who is alone and waiting for somthing to occur and in "Design" an onlooker is questioning the preplanned nature of god. I think the speaker is relevant to some point because that individual plays a vital role in the craetion of the poem and for that exact point of view.

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  15. Original: In the poem " The Most of It" , the author depicts a man , a man who is bound to himself , a man that begs for another life form to share love and compassion with. The man then hopes that when he hears the splashing of water and hoped it was another human being , he was dissapointed when it was not of human spirit at all but a buck , a deer . The deer was not a mundane deer, but a powerful buck. The man begins to questions life, God perhaps some sort of higher power; is he destined to be alone.
    In " Design", the author presents the speaker as a spectator of life, a person who finds the ultimate design only leading into darkness. The act of the spider consuming the moth is the chain of life and is questioned, the symbol of color played a major role as well when deciphering the speakers intentions. The white plant that the spider took refuge on both could mean a pure entitity in life , the white moth that arrived and had been consumed by the spider could show that life is even so insignifacant in a small being, this also questions the motive of a higher power.

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  16. Original:

    Both “Design” and “The Most of It” share a common theme of faith and doubt. With that in mind, I find the two perspectives in the poems to be different. In “Design” the speaker is not necessarily questioning the exist of God himself but Gods thought process or reasoning. This description reminds me of a scientist that is trying to decipher how an object got from point A to point B. The speaker is questioning the procession of the events. In the “ Most of It” however, I get the impression that the speaker is questioning his own belief in God. Almost to the point that he is unsure of his existence. This difference is apparent in the both poems through the structure Frost uses for each and the extent of the details.

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  17. In reponse to whomever:

    I think that the buck is something more than just a powerful buck that passes through the landscape and then disappears just as quickly. A deer symbolizes natures power that is not be restrained. Specifically, a deer can shed its antlers and re-grow them yearly. This means that the deer could also symbolize independence and regeneration. This might encourage the idea of trusting your gut instinct. The instinct of the onlooker was that despite being alone in the universe, he believed that there was another human being. Although it turned out that it was a deer, Frost showed that the onlooker should still trust his feeling or have faith that there are other humans.

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  18. To all who responded to my question: Thank you.

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  19. The identity of the speakers in both poems is not important. However, I do feel that the two poems have to do with God. In "design" the author is questioning the creations, and "The Most of It" the author is questioning whether there is a God. He seems to be losing faith, and all of a sudden this buck appears.

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  20. To Shinece:
    Even though I feel that the speakers identities have no relevance, I do believe that she is right to some extent. But it is all about how the reader perceives the poems.

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  21. Original:

    In class we were given the assignment of reading design and the most of it by robert frost, the speaker and each poem seems to be the narrator, or robert frost himself. the identity of the speaker is important because it sets the scene and tone of the poem. for example, in design the speaker seems to be an onlooker or the nature itself, whereas the poem, most of it, is the man himself onlooking the nature. the speaker revealed towards the end of the reading and the speakers intentions almost. the qualities of the two speakers is almost reaching out to the reader for advice, the speaker is almost telling the reader the diffculties they face. i think the speakers are different, design speaker doubts his religion almost; whereas the most of it speaker faces other hardships

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  22. I believe that in both poems the identity of the speaker is not that of a man, but of mankind itself. The author is questioning the existence of God and of nature. In design it is as if man is questioning if there is a God, then why does he create so much evil. In "The Most if It" the man, or society of mankind is searching for something that isn't really there. The man is searching for companionship and always worrying about perfection in life, as mankind is. Instead we should learn to enjoy the most of life, "the most of it."

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  23. I see the speaker in "Design" as a spectator and the speaker in the "The Most of It" as the narrator speaking of himself in third person.

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  24. To Marium:

    I disagree with your statement, I do think the speaker does have relevance to the reader. The speaker allows the reader to visualize and almost see where they are coming from; to me it seems as if the reader sets imagery and inner voice to each poem. But as for the statement, Doubt does relate back to religion; I agree.

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  25. To: Paulina
    I disagree with you about what you typed on the identity of the speaker not being important. If we know who the speaker is for certain, it would allow us to pass judgement easily and accurately on the perspective of the author and the intended message of the poems.

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  26. To Shinece: I disagree with the idea that the identity of the speaker does matter. I think that the identity doesn't matter as much as the idea that they represent man. I think that this is the true identity of the man. But I do agree with your assumption that both poems are in some way questioning the existence of God and nature.

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  27. Original: Like Jon I also believe the narrator's identity has no relevant meaning within both "Design" and "The Most of It." However, both authors share a doubt in faith/religion. Within "Design" the narrator questions the existence of God.He holds a cynical attitude, and suggests that if there is a God he is cruel. Throughout the poem the theme centers around the idea of death. Likewise, In the poem "The Most of It" the narrator begins doubting God too. As he calls out he expects to hear no reply.

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  28. Original:
    The speakers of both poems share two commonalities --- discussing faith and doubt. Though it is relevant that we know who the speakers are, Robert Frost seems to hint at the idea of mankind being more essential to each poem's entirety. In both poems the speakers learn more about themselves by exploring nature, though nature always stays indifferent in the human world. Frost tries to convey that people learn from nature because nature allows people to gain knowledge about themselves and because nature requires people to reach new insights, but nature itself does not provide the answers. For example in "Design" the speaker wonders about the "design of darkness," that has led a spider to kill a moth over the course of a night. While humans might learn about themselves through nature, natures and its ways remain a mystery. These messages are what the speakers of both poems try to convey in respect to their common themes of faith and doubt.

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  29. To Marium:
    I agree with you that the identity of the speaker in both poems isn't that important. I also thought that both poem dealt with God. Although i disagree with the last sentence your wrote. I don't bethat the speaker was loosing faith.

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  30. To Xander:

    I wholly concur with your notion of Frost being more concerned about mankind itself and not really about the speakers of both poems. His constant analogies to God make this point seem even more potent. Sharing both themes of faith and doubt make it seem as if Frost's poems all center around the themes of nature in relevance to God and other entities. It truly makes comprehending the poems much more intriguing and Frost's writing even more compelling.

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  31. To Xander,
    I find your point quite interesting! To think that Frost was really referring to mankind really expands the meaning of the poem. While it seems a slight stretch, it really gives the reader an additional perspective.

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  32. To Xander:
    I agree!! It really doesn't phase me if the speaker is old, young, male, female, or whatever...like Jon said...the speaker doesn't influence any of the events happening in either of the poems...the main idea of the poems is that the person is question some aspect of God.

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  33. Aside from a focus on faith and doubt, one commonality in the poems is that they are questioning aspects of nature, but just on different scales. In Design, the speaker is focusing on the smaller scale of things by looking at insects. In The Most of It, the speaker is focusing on a much larger scale - what seems to be an entire forest, or woodland area.These poems reflect questions which people are always trying to find answers to: How does the universe work in such order all the time? How do animals just KNOW how things work? Where and how do living beings get instincts to live? I believe that regardless of what is taught by different religions, or what theories scientists come up with, the order of nature is something that no one will ever be able to fully grasp the concept of; these poems express that lack of understanding.

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  34. Original:

    Like many people have stated the speakers in both of the poems have no effect on the events of the poem. However I do feel that who the speaker is is important to the poem. Knowing who the speaker is does give a better understanding to the reader. To me at least it would help me better understand where the thoughts of the speaker and gives me a better understanding of meaning.

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  35. Original:
    It is evident that both poems deal with faith and doubt. In Design, the narrator is questioning God's creations and nature and In the Most of it, a lonely man is questioning if there is a God in existence? Throughout it all the narrator was not lonely, his surroundings (nature) was there along with him. However, he was absent of the companionship he truly wanted.

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  36. Original:

    Within both of the poems, “Design” and “The Most of It” the narrators are individuals that have not grasped the structure of nature and how it works. They are in a sense being confronted, however, with specific situations that have the ability to help them comprehend this, hence they are spectators of nature. Despite this, the speakers’ identities are not important in either poem because the poem is saying more about nature than it is about the actual narrators. The poem, “Design,” is not mainly about the fact that the speaker is realizing that the intricate design of nature is apparent in even the smallest event. The main idea is that the intricate design of nature is apparent in the smallest event. The concept of “The Most of It” is not that the speaker thinks that he is greater than all and is humbled by nature. But the point of the poem is that nature is grand and possesses strength that is incomparable to anything else.

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  37. To Justin:

    I agree with your statement that the poems reflect the ability of nature to allow people to gain insight, which in turn can help them gain knowledge and come to realizations about themselves. For example, in “The Most of It” the narrator realizes that nature is powerful and mighty, which leads to him noticing that he is not superior over all things. This moment could have given him the thought that he should humble himself. In “Design” the narrator realizes that the intricate design of nature is apparent in even the smallest event, which may have allowed him to realize that the design of nature is surrounding him and is a part of him. This could have given him a sense of belonging within the world.

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  38. In both poems the identity of the speaker is left ambiguous, because it is unimportant. In both poems the speaker is revealed as an observer of the events taking place, and questions God. The only true difference between the two speakers is that one is questioning the design of God (Design) and the other is questioning the subject. (Mankind)

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  39. In both poems, the speakers portray a feeling of mistrust, and confusion that leaves for questioning.In "Design" the speaker questions God's judgement, and reasoning for his creation; whereas in "Most of it" the narrator question's God's presence completely, and his intentions for the world. Both speakers can relate to feeling disconnected to god itself. They both had used scenes of nature to capture the lack of comfort they possess of god. However, they take different approaches. In "Design" there is emphasis on the smallest part of nature to show insignificance, while "Most of it" uses huge landscapes too show the loneliness they feel.

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  40. The identity of the speaker in either of Frost's poems is peripheral because whether the reader knew the identification of the narrator or not wouldn't cause weight in how the reader comprehends the poem. The narrator in "Design" uses similes to show the reader an idea of the events that are occurring in the poem. Oppositely, the speaker in "The Most of It" relies on imagery along with descriptive detail in order allude to the bigger picture.

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  41. To Jon, I agree with you when you said the identity is not necessarily important, the overall picture of the poems is not produced by the character of the narrator.

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  42. Original: I do not believe that the identity of the speaker in these two poems are particularly important. Whether you are aware of the identity or not, the analysis of the poems remain the same. In "Design" it is apparent that the speaker questions the creation of God in the sense of good and evil being of coexistence, and "The Most of It" questions the superiority of nature in relation to man. The identity of the speaker plays a small role, if any, to establishing the true meaning and essence of each poem.

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  43. To Shevana: Why does the identity of the speaker matter in "The Most of It"? Can't Frost be representative of all mankind, and if so, how would that change interpretation of the poem?

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  44. The speaker's identity in both poems is irrelevant which is easily seen because he/she is not directly identified, there is no characterization, simply questioning. In "Design" he questions God in creating evil and the reason for designing things so insignificant. In "The Most of It" he analyzes his loneliness.

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  45. I think the speaker has a prominent voice in both "The Most of It" and "Design". The obvious tone of "doubt" is brought among the two poems, however, the speaker seems to have characteristics of a "god". He comes off as wise, simple, and all-knowing, letting the readers question the authority of the speaker

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  46. To Alex: I completely agree that the tone of the reader doesnt truly effect the readers comprehension of the poem.

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  47. I personally believe that the identity of the speakers in both poems are irrelevent. Although they are the individuals that create the poems and there themes, the main ideas of each poem is more significant than who created them. The two speakers are similar in the fact that they focus on the theme of faith and doubt, one passage based on questioning the existance of God and his design while the other focuses on his faith and loneliness.

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